Priest George Maximov interviews people who
converted to Orthodoxy on
the TV program “My Path to God”. Sometimes the
journey to the Light takes people through years of serving dark forces. This is
what happened to Elena Smirnova, today’s guest of Father George’s program. She
used to practice witchcraft and esoteric arts, and summon evil spirits. Elena
will tell us whether those who summon dark forces are masters or slaves of such
forces. We will also learn what led her to Christ and what she sees as her
mission now.
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| Father George Maximov. |
Priest George
Maximov:
Hello!. You are watching “My Path To God”, a program about people whose lives
were drastically changed after turning to Christ. Sometimes people convert
after being infinitely far away from Christianity. The story of the guest of
today’s program is a case in point. Before she found God, she used to
communicate with evil spirits. "Elena Nikolayevna", could you tell us how it all
started?!. Am I correct to assume that you grew up in a non-religious family?...
Elena Smirnova: My
family was Orthodox, but we weren’t religious. We would
go to church once a
year on a feast day to light candles. I had some idea about the Church, but it
was quite vague. My parents baptized me shortly after I was born. My
grandmother helped to arrange it. She invited a priest to our place and he came
over and performed the baptism. After that, she cast a spell to protect me from
hernia. My parents were just like her. They believed in God and yet they
believed in house elves1 too. My mother used to tell me that a house elf visited
her when she was at our summerhouse. My grandmother would tell such stories
too. They used to tell me many amazing stories when I was a child. I was into
it too. I liked fairy tales. As a child, I kept to myself and liked to daydream.
I think I learned how to tell fortunes when I was in the second grade. My
mother showed me some simple ways to tell if your wish would come true. These
were my first attempts at fortune telling.
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| Elena Smirnova. |
Father George: Well,
at that time it probably felt like a game?!...
Elena Smirnova:
Yes. But I was already hooked. I was told that we even had some witches among
our ancestors and that many of our relatives used to practice these dark arts.
When I was a child, I even liked pretending to be such a person. It felt like I
already had some inclination toward these matters. However, I developed a real
interest when I was in school. I was 14 years old. Once my classmates were
picking on me. They saw my beautiful magic medallion and half-jokingly asked,
“What are you, a witch?” I said, “Yes.” They said, “Prove it!” So I told
fortunes to some of the girls. In one case, I had a lucky guess and in another
I made a correct assumption, so some of my predictions came true. My classmates
stopped mocking me and I understood that this gives me some kind of power over
people. I started reading about it and got more involved. My mother showed me
how to tell fortunes during Christmastide and explained the meanings of cards.
She wasn’t a witch; she simply believed that getting together after Christmas,
throwing a boot to find out when you’ll find your love and other similar acts
was just regular girlish fun. I really got interested because it seemed very
exciting and mysterious to me.
I can’t say that I was looking for God since
childhood, but I always knew that there were forces beyond our control. I
couldn’t understand how I can be alive now and then be dead and gone?! I feel,
think, and love. I can’t just disappear..!!.. So I started looking for the answer to
this question and thought that I could find it in magical rituals. I used to
read books on religion too, but they seemed too complicated and boring to me.
Going to church wasn’t interesting for me either. Naturally, when I was a
child, I liked the church’s beautiful decor, but later when I grew up, I thought
that the truth wasn’t there. As a teenager, I was looking for something more
exciting.
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| Using "Ouija" board. |
The girls from my class started asking me to
summon spirits, so we organized séances and used a self-made "Ouija" board to
summon the spirits of Pushkin and Lermontov and ask them questions about boys.
After those séances, even back then when I was 14, I was not feeling well. I
felt like I had a fever and lost some strength. However, I didn’t pay much
attention to it. I remember that once I had a dream: I was led through a dark
corridor and into the light. Then I heard a voice asking, “Why did you summon
spirits on Annunciation day?” I woke up and asked my mother what Annunciation
was, for I didn’t even know this word. My mother said that it was some kind of
Orthodox feast day. I didn’t pay any attention to it either.
At 16, I was really into all that stuff. I
remember going to the bookstore and seeing bookshelves full of books on what
they call “Esoteric Sciences”. There were so many books on that!...
Father George:
Unfortunately, they still sell a lot of these books. So for the most part, did
you get the information from these books??...
Elena Smirnova: While I was studying at school, I read the
books. Later I moved on to things that were more practical. I tried meditation,
astral projection and attaining certain states of consciousness. For example,
to get in a better mood and make some improvements in life, you have to close
your eyes, imagine your “guardian angel” and talk to him. Basically, you have
to achieve an altered state of consciousness. At the same time, I started
learning how to tell fortunes with playing cards.
Once a friend told me, “You communicate with
spirits like Pushkin or Lermontov, but there is a very strong spirit from hell,
he is one of the closest to the evil one. If you call him forth, you can ask
for your wish to come true.” I don’t know what I thought about it when I was 16
and why I did it, but once when I was alone I did summon this spirit using a
self-made "Ouija" board fashioned out of a plate. I felt very powerful and happy
because I could do something that the others couldn’t. I called him forth and
asked him to fulfill some of my teenage dreams. The very same night I had my
first episode of acute pain. I remember that I felt as if some entity was sitting
on top of me and strangling me. I felt pain in my heart and my whole body
ached; I felt as if I was dying. I woke up and read the “Our Father”. For some
reason, this prayer was the first thing that came to my mind. I didn’t know any
other prayers. I fell asleep again and experienced the same thing. This went on
for the entire night. I could barely get up in the morning. When I came to
school, that girl told me, “Did you think it was simply communicating with
spirits? My book says that when you say the invocation, you give your soul
away.” Still, I was stupid enough then to summon him again. I told him that I
didn’t need any wishes to come true, but this didn’t help and my bad dreams
continued. However, I didn’t stop my experiments and kept on looking. I
remember that I prayed to God too, standing in front of icons. I asked for some
of my wishes to come true. I just thought that all spiritual things are somehow
interrelated.
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| Fortune telling. |
Elena Smirnova: I did, but when I started hanging out with
fortune-tellers, I saw that they have icons. They like having them around. The
fortune-tellers told me that there was white magic too, and that if you did
good things you wouldn’t contradict the Church’s teachings. I didn’t have any
religious friends. I somewhat understood that what I was doing was wrong, but I
didn’t realize how bad it was. So I continued to practice all that. As a
result, I got very sick when I was 19. This illness was very strange. In
addition to those bad dreams that I kept on having, I started seeing various
entities even when I was awake. I felt constant fear, my heart and head ached,
my ears were ringing… When we called an ambulance, the doctors would say that I
had had a heart seizure or panic attack, however when I went to various
doctors, they couldn’t find anything wrong.
I got access to Internet then, and read on one
church site that people must go to Communion. I already had a magic-oriented
mind, and the meaning of Orthodoxy was not clear to me. I probably wouldn’t
have understood it, even if somebody explained it to me. If you have a
magic-oriented mind, you think that God is the universe, and when you do
anything, the impersonal universe reacts in response. For some reason, I
thought that God was something huge and imperceptible, but not a personality. I
went for my second confession and communion, which I decided to do as a magic
ritual. I didn’t repent and didn’t want to change, but I thought that I would feel
better after confession and communion. I did try to prepare and read some
information, but still couldn’t understand the profoundness of this, or maybe I
simply didn’t want to.
Father George: Sometimes when a person chooses some wrong
path or succumbs to any sin, such a person experiences a certain inner
blindness. This voluntarily sinful state causes a certain blindness of the
mind, so you can’t look at the things you’re doing from the outside and
reconsider. It is difficult.
Elena Smirnova: It is very difficult. Moreover, all the
friends I had at that time played along and encouraged me, “Yes, it is all the
same, go to confession and communion, if it helps.”
Father George: I assume that such confession and communion
did not do you any good. Of course, you didn’t know that at the time, and in a
way did it out of ignorance. However, I want to emphasize for our viewers that
if a person comes to confession, communion or baptism for purposes other than
becoming one with Our Lord Jesus Christ, especially if they do it for occult
purposes, it is a great sin. I have heard people say that they went to some fortune-tellers
who told them, “Go get baptized.” or “Go to confession and then we will tell
your fortune or do what you ask for.” This makes some people believe that these
fortune-tellers are Orthodox. But this is the demons’ deception, for it is more
interesting for them to wrong the Christians, rather than non-baptized people.
So, I would assume that in your case this didn’t help you get what you
expected, because you did it for the purposes that were different from what
these sacraments were intended for.
Elena Smirnova: Even though it was done because of false
motives, I did experience some relief after Communion. I should have realized that this was a sign
telling me where to find protection from the attacks of the evil spirits. But I
think that subconsciously I didn’t want to get rid of them… even though I felt
bad. When you study esoteric sciences, you feel that you know something
mysterious, that you are not like the others, and I think that this
pridefulness got in the way. I wasn’t ready. Now when I talk to people who are
still into it, they still have their magic-oriented thinking and simply do not
hear. It is very difficult to get through to them.
Anyway, when I got older, I studied various
methods of fortune telling with playing cards, still thinking that I can find
something good in this. I also remember that whenever I heard somebody
criticizing Christ, as, for example, some pagans I knew used to do, I always
wanted to defend Him for some reason. And when esoteric or Osho2
followers told me that Christianity was all rubbish and that it was invented
for slaves, I always felt some kind of inner contradiction. When I got older, I
started reading various books by eastern mystics as I decided, so to say, to
develop my spirituality.
Father George: And where were you looking for it specifically?!...
Elena Smirnova: The Internet has everything. I met some
people, bought some
books. I like to read and find the books appealing. Those
books were very pretty looking, especially Osho’s books about love. There would
be a beautiful flower on the cover, but the contents were awful. What struck me
was that his life was described as if he were a great martyr. At that time, I
knew nothing about Christian martyrs, so he seemed to me a great man who was
misunderstood, while he made a significant discovery and understood that people
must be free. These books do not openly say, “Have fun, fornicate and be free.”
Everything is described in a tricky way there, so I think that one shouldn’t
even open those books, because if you read them for a while your consciousness
starts to change.
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| Osho. |
After reading Osho’s books, I even started
thinking about atheism. Before that, I considered myself Orthodox, although I
wasn’t one in the true meaning of the word; but the book was convincingly
persuading me that Christianity was not needed. It alleged that Jesus Christ
was simply a man who did not die on the cross, but went on living somewhere
after crucifixion. These books contained all kinds of stuff that Osho made up.
At first I was inspired, but later, after reading his books more attentively, I
saw that he kept on repeating the same things over and over and that there were
a lot of contradictions. I am surprized that people still believe in all that.
Of course, I was ignorant and nobody explained anything to me… I could have searched
for the truth on my own, but instead I was looking for something that I needed
for myself. After living according to Osho’s teachings for a while, I became a
worse person, more lascivious, selfish, and indifferent to other people’s
suffering.
Father George: Why do people believe him?!... Because on one hand
his teachings contain some statements of general human wisdom. Osho was a
well-read man and could insert various aphorisms in his reasoning. On the other
hand, his main message is that people are good the way they are and nobody has
any right to tell them what to do. So people should enjoy themselves and their
lives and do what they want. This is exactly what people who succumb to their
passions want to hear. However, people who live according to their passions are
internally conflicted, because their conscience is telling them that what they
are doing is wrong. You can fill your head with any ideas and believe that you
are a free person, that there is no God, that you are a god or that there are
gods who approve of what you are doing. You can make all this up. However
ultimately you are still sinning against the One True God. For Solomon said,
“Rejoice, O young man, in thy youth; and let thy heart cheer thee in the days
of thy youth, and walk in the ways of thine heart, and in the sight of thine
eyes: but know thou, that for all these things God will bring thee into
judgment.” (Ecclesiastes, 11:9). This inner voice of consciousness that tells
people that they are on the wrong path creates a feeling of discomfort that
leads to depression and stress, even when everything seems to be going well.
For example, you can decide that your actions are not sinful and live as you
please. As this is your choice, it seems that you can now live and rejoice. But
you can’t. There is some kind of inner misbalance. People feel this misbalance
and it bothers them. Osho’s teachings seem to help quench this inner misbalance
through self-hypnosis and injecting your consciousness with another dose of
statements like “Well, everything is fine, I’m right, no need to feel sorry for
anything.” That is why these ideas are popular, but these are not the ideas
that can help people change for the better.
Elena Smirnova: It’s like painkillers—these
tablets help relieve the pain for a while, but do not cure the illness. The
same goes for positive psychology books, Feng Shui, etc… I read them all. After
reading these books, you get inspired for a while, but then you need to read
the book again, because you still feel bad inside. You can’t silence this
feeling. You fall into a state of spiritual delusion. Only later I realized
that a state of grace and a state of spiritual delusion are two completely
different things. God’s grace gives you tranquility, calmness, quietness and
peace of mind. When you’re in a state of spiritual delusion, you feel worried
inside and want to do some shameless acts, as if there were an internal
explosion taking place. You feel like you are a god. All these books tell
people to be like gods, so that they won’t need a Church of any kind. So I kept
on doing all this.
The worst part was that people started asking
me to tell their fortunes and develop horoscopes for them. A friend recommended
me to another friend and it went on and on… I saw that I was good at it and decided
to open my own fortune-telling business. Although I have to admit that I had a
bad feeling after telling fortunes. I would even throw the cards away, but then
I’d go and buy a new deck. It was some kind of addiction. I would read the
cards before doing anything, for example before getting a new job. The cards
would always predict something bad and I would be upset. I’d be waiting for
something bad to happen and it eventually would come true. When a warlock
summons a ghost or tells your fortune with cards, you start thinking about the
prediction and picking the facts that confirm what was predicted. I figured
that mechanism out after a while. For example, a girl is told that she will
meet a blond guy, so she starts looking at blond men only. Eventually, she
meets a blond guy and then believes that the prediction came true. Take for
example positive psychology: If a person is inwardly peaceful, he is likely to
do good deeds. It doesn’t mean that the universe gave something back to you for
being nice and good. This understanding came to me later, but for a while I
still was in a state of delusion, in a state of that magic-oriented
consciousness.
The breaking point
occurred in 2012 during Christmastide. I decided to talk to the spirit of Osho
that I liked so much at the time. I thought I would talk to him during the
séance. We were going to tell fortunes with the girls.
Father George: Sure, why read the books when you can talk
directly to the author (laughs).
Elena Smirnova: We were telling fortunes and having fun. But I
thought that it was time for more serious stuff, as I wanted to learn the truth
and become a more advanced witch. So we summoned the spirit of Osho. I remember
that I asked the spirit, “Who are you? Are you Osho?” And the plate spelled out
EVIL. That was how it called itself. Well, we told fortunes as usual, and
afterwards everybody went home. I remember that night very well. I came home
and I felt a dreadful fear that I had never felt before. I couldn’t fall
asleep. I found a church candle, lit it and started praying. I should emphasize
that only the name of Jesus, the sign of the cross and Orthodox prayers can
drive the evil spirits away. Other prayers don’t work; I know this for sure
because I tried. Although I noticed this a long time ago, I couldn’t make the
right conclusion. A few days after Osho had said that he was evil, I
experienced a dramatic change.
In fact, I had been heading toward that change
for a long time. I remember I would sit down and say, “God, if you exist, show
me the way You are. I feel that I am drowning in all these attractions and I
know that they will do me no good. But I’ll keep on searching.” During those
days, I thought a lot. I read about "yoga" and trips to Tibet—these were the last
echoes of my former interests. It is difficult to let go of your “favorite”
sin. I started watching a TV program on spiritism, where the priest explained
that it was a sin. They showed possessed people; it was scary. Those were
difficult days for me.
On January 19, 2012, the day of Baptism of Our
Lord Jesus Christ, I woke up in the morning and realized that I wanted to be
Orthodox. I knew that I would throw away all the books I used to read and
wouldn’t talk to my former acquaintances. I would cut it all off and only learn
one truth, because the truth was there, in Orthodoxy. I got up thinking like
this and did it all, right away. I don’t even know where I got the strength to
do it. A priest to whom I went for confession later told me, “Somebody probably
prayed for you. It is quite rare that a person can quit so abruptly.” I prepared
extensively for my confession. I remember that when I started searching the
Internet, I would find the answers as soon as I typed my questions. And the
answers were all correct and logical. It was different from all those esoteric
teachings, when you look for answers and it gets more complicated. Here
everything started to fall into place. It was the Truth, and that was it. I
prepared myself. One evening I came to a small church in the town of
Cherepovets. Right before the confession, I felt very bad. I started shaking
and couldn’t utter a word. I thought I would run away.
Father George: Of course, the evil spirits want to get in the
way of people who decide to turn to God. Naturally, they won’t just sit back
doing nothing and watch their prey get away from them. That is why, not only in
your case, but in many similar cases, they try to find a way to prevent people
from quitting on them.
Elena Smirnova: Yes, I felt very bad, but I
thought, I have my guardian angel near me, I won’t leave, I will go to confession.
I prayed to my guardian angel, and the bad feeling went away. I’m very grateful
to Father John who received my confession. He felt my pain. We performed the
rites for renunciation of Satan. We read the prayer and spat at Satan. I
remember that attending services was difficult at first. It is still difficult
for me to stand in the church during services. But I endured. I didn’t
understand anything, but I felt good. This word doesn’t even describe it well.
In the church, I felt that darkness was leaving my soul, and I felt better. I
made my choice. It was difficult; it still is. First and foremost, I was trying
to get rid of my magic-oriented thinking, so I when I see a bird flying by I
won’t think that it is some kind of omen.
Father George: In fact, this type of thinking
really enslaves you. Despite all the rhetoric about freedom, the more you yield
to such thinking, the more you are weighed down by such things as omens or
predictions. Actually, this is how the ancient pagans felt; they wouldn’t do
anything without having their fortunes told. Indeed, as you said, this prevents
people from being free. The first Christians felt freedom from all of this. I
think you also felt this freedom, although it probably wasn’t easy.
Elena Smirnova: Yes, initially I thought that Christians were
not free, but it turned out to be the other way around. Christianity is a
religion of very strong and free people and it gives people the strength to
fight sin. I hope that I have overcome my magic-oriented thinking, and I don’t
want to go back. I threw all those books away. The priest told me, “Since you
were turning other people to all those bad things, now you must act to undo
what you have done.” Indeed, I used to communicate with spirits when my friends
were around; I gave esoteric books to some people and told their fortunes.
After repenting, I found some girls online who were into similar things. They
were in trouble and some of them are still having problems. I understand now
that I got away cheaply. I can’t say that everything is completely gone; I
think it is going to be a long process. All my previous actions severely
affected my spiritual immunity, but at least I understood that I found what I
was looking for. It’s a pity that it took me so long and that I had to go
through all those misadventures, but I’m happy that God showed me the way to
Himself. Now the most important thing for me is to keep going in the right direction.
To those who are afraid that they won’t
succeed, I say, “Don’t be disheartened, God is stronger than the demons.”
Father George: I know that you manage a group in VKontakte (a
popular Russian social media.—Trans.) dedicated to revealing problems caused by
magic and occultism and helping people who suffered from them. For there are
many people who have had experiences similar to yours. Basically, it is a
spiritual law: Those who in one way or another appeal to evil spirits never get
anything good from them, because these spirits are not there to help people.
Their objective is to harm people. Maybe you could tell us some stories you learned
about the people who were into the occult, and explain what happens to those
who continue their interest in the occult, and to those who quit and return to
God with repentance??...
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The page of Elena and her friends.
"Beware of Occultism and sects".
|
Elena Smirnova: Our group is called “Beware of Occultism and Sects”. At first, there were two of us, a girl named
Eugenia and myself. She was more involved in the occult than I was; she went
through various initiations and used to live in Osho’s ashrams. Her situation
was more serious. Now she is not well and can’t work. But it is worse for those
who do not repent. I know of many followers of Osho and other esoteric
teachings who ended up badly. However, I would like to take this opportunity to
tell people who were also involved in dark magic that they shouldn’t be afraid
of demons even if they still come to them at night and frighten them. God is
stronger than demons. Some people say that it is all over and it is too
difficult, and that they won’t be able to change. They shouldn’t give up.
When we started our
group, we had a lot of negative reactions at first. I still don’t know how to
get some occultists to see the light of faith. We have to tell those scary
stories, rather than simply say, “I felt bad after telling somebody’s fortune.”
We describe the feelings in detail and this makes some people think. Sometimes
people tell me, “Yes, I also told somebody’s fortune and had similar dreams
after that. I should probably stop doing it.” After reading our stories, some people
who learned how harmful fortune telling and occultism are not only quit the
occult, but went to their first Communion and became religious. You know,
shortly after my repentance, I wrote down my life in detail, and now, three
years later, when I re-read it to prepare for this program, it seemed that this
story was not about me. I didn’t even remember some of the things that happened
to me. I think this is a positive tendency.
Father George: Of course. God helped you to get rid of all
that. Indeed, you started a new life. It is good that the past doesn’t control
you even through memories.
Elena Smirnova: We speak different languages with those who
are still into occultism. I think that they are feeling bad, but they look at
us and think, “Crazy Christians. Why did you run to the church?” A lot of
people think that the Church is full of mean people in headscarves and long
skirts, who don’t let you smile or laugh.
Father George: Some stereotypes are maintained, sometimes by
anti-Church forces and sometimes directly by evil spiritual forces.
Elena Smirnova: But in truth, people do not want to repent,
because in Church you have to work on yourself, control your passions,
acknowledge and fight them. With a magic-oriented consciousness, everything is
the other way around, and people are looking for happiness without working on
themselves. But I don’t see any happiness in them. I see some kind of ecstatic
state and deception. I don’t know any people who became millionaires after
rustling banknotes somewhere or observing any other superstitions… But people
really believe in these superstitions. They are certain that they are sending
signals to the universe, and someday their wishes will come true. I used to
argue with many people, but now I have become more careful, because sometimes I
get angry and start defending myself rather than the truth. This is not
pleasing to God. Naturally, I will continue my fight against occultism, at
least among my friends. Many people didn’t believe that I became Orthodox. They
thought that this was just a whim and it would pass after a few months. But
this is not a whim, this is my life. This is the truth.
 |
Elena Smirnova: Even if you participate in it a little, you
get hurt. Sometimes people say, “Well, I just got my fortune told once, there
is nothing wrong about that, is there?!... We have to get people to understand
somehow that even one time is too much. It gets absurd—I once read in the
Internet that people tell fortunes during Christmastide because God is so happy
that His son was born, that He lets demons walk the earth and give people
information. That is why allegedly it is okay to tell fortunes during this time
and it is not a sin.
Father George: This is, of course, utter nonsense. In fact,
everything is quite simple. If we need help from God, we can ask God Himself.
We do not need any cards or anybody’s spirit… but when people turn to other
forces rather than God, it becomes obvious. These are the forces that oppose
God, and since God is the source of goodness, it is obvious that these forces,
no matter who they purport to be, can only harm people.
Thank you very much for your story, Elena
Nikolayevna. May God’s help be with you!
* An "ouija" board is a board with the letters of the
alphabet written on it. It is used to ask questions which
are thought to be answered by
the spirits of dead people.
3- A center formed in Moscow with
the blessing of Patriarch Alexy II to aid people recovering from alcoholism,
drug and other addictions, cults, and the occult.